DELPHI, Ind. – Jurors watched a second recorded interview with Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen.

Allen faces four counts of murder in connection with the February 2017 deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge. His trial is in its tenth day of testimony.

Earlier on Tuesday, jurors watched Allen’s initial interview from Oct. 13, 2022. They saw a second interview—one with Indiana State Police investigator Jerry Holeman—after that.

Holeman testified about the contents of the interview on Saturday.

Interview from Oct. 26, 2022

In the video of the Oct. 26, 2022, interview, Holeman told Allen police had taken a gun, knives, clothes and his car. They discussed guns and Allen’s time in the military.

Allen said he hadn’t shot “in a long time.” When Holeman asked if Allen had loaned out any items that police seized, he responded, “If I did, I certainly don’t remember.”

The investigator asked Allen if he was carrying knives or guns on the trail. Allen said he “just went for a short walk that day.” Then Holeman informed Allen about the firearms analysis that matched a cartridge found at the scene to a Sig Sauer P226 seized from Allen’s home.

Holeman told him that firearms leave marks that are “just like fingerprints.” He told him prosecutors wanted to lock him up, but Holeman was on his side.

“I don’t even know how my bullet would have gotten out there if that’s my bullet,” Allen said. “There is no way.”

Holeman told Allen the media would portray him “as a monster.”

“Are you the mastermind behind this?” he asked Allen.

“Mastermind,” Allen responded with a sarcastic chuckle.

“If you don’t tell me, you’re going down for this,” Holeman said.

“Do you realize what you’ve done to me?” Allen asked. “There is no way a round from my gun was anywhere near the girls [or] the bridge.”

“We’re trying to help you,” Holeman told him.

“The damage is done. Go ahead and do what you’re going to do,” Allen said, adding that he could never do what police were suggesting.

“It didn’t come out of my gun,” he insisted.

Holeman said the death penalty was on the table. Allen said he didn’t “really care about living” at and discussed his mental health. He started cursing.

“Kill me,” Allen said. “Make my wife f****** rich.”

Holeman pressed him about the Delphi murders.

“You’re the last person to contact Abby and Libby,” he said.

“I never met them,” Allen responded.

DNA taken, further denials

Holeman then left. Allen sat by himself and shook his head. When Holeman returned, he had a warrant for DNA and took swabs from Allen.

“The girls have a video of you,” Holeman said.

“I know you’re trying to trick me into saying [I killed them],” Allen responded. “I’m not going to say something I didn’t f****** do.” He added, “What was I involved with?”

“I don’t know,” Holeman answered. “You tell me. You were there. This is the time to get out in front of this. There’s no way you can explain all the evidence away.”

“If you got somebody that’s saying I helped him, they are f****** crazy,” Allen said. “If you’re going to arrest me, arrest me. I’m done.” He then told Holeman, “I think nothing you have is going to show me near the murder scene.”

Holeman left Allen alone again and the video cut out. When the investigator returned, he asked Allen about the cartridge found at the murder scene. Allen again told him it wasn’t his and it wasn’t possible for that cartridge to be from his gun.

“Maybe you did do this all by yourself,” Holeman suggested. “There’s some missing pieces.”

“[My wife] is going to tell you there’s no way in hell I’d ever do this,” Allen said. “There’s no way possible that a round from my gun ended up at a murder scene.”

Allen told Holeman he refused to sit there “all day” and try to convince him he wasn’t responsible for the Delphi killings.

Holeman left again and then returned. He asked about a round found in a keepsake box in Allen’s home. It was similar to the “unspent bullet” found next to the girls.

“We know you have some anger issues,” Holeman told Allen. He theorized that Allen encountered the girls, they made him angry, and he racked the gun to scare them, ejecting the cartridge in the process.

“I went for a walk and I went home,” Allen told him.

Holeman asked about Ron Logan, who owns some of the property near the trail. FBI documents showed agents searched Logan’s property after the murders and looked at him and any possible involvement in the case.

“What about Ron Logan? Do you know Ron Logan?” Holeman asked. Allen shook his head in the negative. “You and I know realistically that the evidence doesn’t lie.”

“Clearly, it does,” Allen retorted. He maintained that the cartridge couldn’t have come from his gun and said he carried the firearm only when he went fishing or mushroom hunting.

“It didn’t come from my gun, is what I’m telling you,” Allen said.

Holeman told him that the crime lab tested several other firearms and only Allen’s matched the round recovered at the crime scene. The state’s expert testified earlier this week that she examined eight firearms in connection with the Delphi murders.

“I can’t just type this s*** up,” Holeman told Allen. “I can take this to a jury of your peers.”

Once again, Holeman left the room. This time, Allen did as well.

Interview resumes, Allen’s wife steps in

The interview soon resumed, with Holeman saying, “I don’t think you’re a bad person.”

“What kind of good person kills two people?” Allen asked. He said he couldn’t tell Holeman something he didn’t know. “I didn’t murder two little girls. I wasn’t involved in killing two little girls.”

Holeman left again. Allen’s wife, Kathy, then walked in. Allen told her it was “going to be all right” and said there was “no way” it could’ve been him.

“I don’t know what they’re trying to do here,” he said. “I didn’t murder anybody. I didn’t help anyone murder anybody.”

“How did a bullet from your gun get there?” his wife asked.

“I don’t know,” he answered.

The pair said “I love you” and shared a kiss.

“This is exactly what I would never want for you,” he said. “They’re trying to talk about my anxiety and depression and s***.”

He said, “If that bullet came from my gun, there’s no way it came from their investigation.”

The video cut to black.

‘Arrest me’

When it resumed, Holeman was back in the room with Allen and his wife.

“You’re going to drag your f****** daughter and wife [into this] because you’re too f****** bullheaded,” Holeman said. “Tell him, Kathy. Tell him to do the right thing.”

With that, Kathy Allen left the interview room.

“You want to f*** with me, f*** with me, but leave my wife out of this,” Allen told Holeman.

Holeman responded by yelling at Allen.

“Did you see those two dead girls?”

“Arrest me,” Allen said.

“Happy to,” Holeman responded. “You’re guilty and I’m going to prove it.”

At that point, the court adjourned and remained in recess until 1:45 p.m.